Sunday, December 09, 2007

Where was the "hand of God" to protect his own?

If we say god does exist, either this god cannot protect his loyal followers or doesn't want to. One of the reasons some Xians have given me for this that "god allowed it because it was their time to go to Him." I have said this before, and sorry to be redundant, but if this god prefers his creations to be in heaven, why would this god create, and continue to create all his little creatures on an "evil" Earth to begin with? For his own amusement? It doesn't make sense. But what about religion does?

Link: Gunman kills 2 in missionary center

ARVADA, Colo. - A gunman walked into a training center dormitory for young Christian missionaries early Sunday and opened fire, killing two of the center's staff members and wounding two others.

Where was the "hand of God" to protect his own?

No arrests had been made by late morning.

The shooting happened at about 12:30 a.m. at the Youth With a Mission center, police spokeswoman Susan Medina said. About 45 people were evacuated from the dormitory in this Denver suburb and moved to an undisclosed location.

A man and a woman in their mid-20s died, and two men ages 22 and 23 were wounded, Medina said. One of the injured men was in critical condition, said Paul Filidis, a Colorado Springs-based spokesman with Youth With a Mission.

All four of the victims were staff members, Filidis said.

Brady White, who attends Faith Bible Chapel, where the center is located, said he had spoken to some students there. They are unhurt but called the experience "terrifying," he said.


"They're just wonderful people," White said of the center's students. "Their mission is to know God and to make him known."


Cheril Morrison, wife of chapel pastor George Morrison, said the man who was killed had just hung up Christmas lights at her home and described the young woman who was killed as "an amazingly beautiful person."

Nice how this god came to rescue these "wonderful people" who are working to "make this god known." This should be evidence to all that missionaries and those working for their gods are just working for figments of human imagination (or a powerless or indifferent god who really has no control over anything). And to say it is "evil" that causes these awful people to kill others just raises the question, why did this god create evil in the first place? God believers say their god created everything, and if this god created, including the choice of "evil" then for what reason was evil created? To just play games with his creations? This is what most of the gods of mythologies that humans have invented do -- these gods make little creations out of boredom or because they are lonely, or for whatever reasons. These mythological stories are an attempt to explain shitty incidents like this shooting that happened in this news story.

"There's no blueprint for this, we're just going to be honest and pray for one another, cry with one another," center director Peter Warren told KUSA-TV. "Who knows what was going on in this young man's life."

Pray, cry? Lot of good that is going to do. Should be obvious since this even happened that praying is going to do absolutely nothing.

"Why would anybody want to hurt those kids?" Martin said. "I just pray for their families."

Again, if this god didn't protect these praying godly kids before, why do they think he is going to help their grieving families?

"We never doubted that we would have a service," said Cheril Morrison. "We felt like our church faithful all needed to be together."


Update: Another incident happened today and this god of the Christians was powerless to prevent it, or chose to let it happen because it was this god's way, as Elizabeth commented below said "to bring something good out of it". That is just absurd reasoning. (Thanks to Andrea for pointing to this second news item.)

LINK: At least four people were shot at church in 2nd Colorado attack


ElizabethMThompson said...

God allows evil. He promises to bring good out of it. Keep watching. You will see this God!

Stardust said...

elizabeth, I was a xian for more than three decades. I went to church, taught Sunday school and everything. I finally came to the realization that church is just a country club, a place to go hang with friends, to help each other out, etc. But as for a god, it is in your own mind.

If you are all alone, and are in need of help, and cry out, no help comes if no HUMANS are around.

You missed the point I made that if your god created everything, he CREATED evil, not merely allows it. You did not say WHAT GOOD could possibly come from allowing terrible evil even against his own loyal followers. It's just YOU making up answers as you go along.

Hopefully one day you will see that God is whatever you want it to be in your own mind. Everyone has their own imaginations of this god, and create this god in your own imagine, according to your own thinking, beliefs, wants and desires.

Keep reading atheist blogs and one day you might "see the light" of reason.

Stardust said...

and seeing what you wrote on your profile that you are "swimming against the current of a world that opposes Christian values"...that's an odd phrase when 86% of this country is Christian.

And according to your own Bible, if your god's actions are any example of "Christian values", and Christians make up such a larger percentage of the population, no wonder the world is so screwed up and evil.

and after looking at your website, why do god botherers seem to have such an extraordinarily difficult time dealing with grief if you have a sky buddy on your side? Could it be because he isn't really there for you? Most people are lucky to have family and friends or else they have no one else to rely on.

Andrea said...

New reports say there have been more shootings at another church in Colorado.

And the Old Testament does indeed say that God *creates* evil, not simply allows if we should worship something that can do away with evil but chooses not to.

Stardust said...

andrea, I saw that news item just before reading my comments here again. What kind of god needs to allow evil like this to happen to bring about good, as Elizabeth has stated above? That is totally absurd reasoning, and I agree, a god like this is not worthy of being worshiped.

tina said...

People keep watching and waiting...and waiting.....etc....etc...

The shooting was horrible.
This was a comment on the matter in the paper:
Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough, but when innocent people are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we must voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed commitment to keeping our communities safe," said Gov. Bill Ritter.

Stardust said...

Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough, but when innocent people are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we must voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed commitment to keeping our communities safe," said Gov. Bill Ritter.

tina, that should make it obvious that there is no god to help them. No protection comes from any god on high, even in houses where people are worshiping him. Protection comes from other people.

I see my drive-by troll hasn't come back for further discussion.

Stardust said...

Earlier Monday, a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said it appeared Murray "hated Christians."

Him being kicked out of the missionary center for reasons of "illness that made it inappropriate for him to continue" has me wondering if he had a communicable disease, OR if he had a disease that is considered to be from "immoral actions". I wonder what these loving Xians had done to him to make him angry enough to carry a grudge for so long and to go beserk. Of course, they will never hold themselves accountable for causing people to lash out. It is always the Xian who will cry persecution when they are the most judgemental against others, and how they shove people aside who need help the most. I have seen this happen even when those needing the most help are family members.

Tommy said...

I just read the NY Times article on this, and it seems the real story here is a sad but oft repeated one, which is what happens when mentally ill people have access to firearms. I would be interested to know what Matthew Murray's family knew about his state of mind and how he was able to get his hands on some guns.

Andrea said...

Another angle is that he was homeschooled in an extremely religious household and I wonder if maybe there was some mental abuse involved, since the guy was obviously not all there to begin with.

I just read another news item that the guard who killed him credits God with stopping the gunman.

Honestly, I wonder if there would be much press if the shootings had occurred at a humanist meeting or a Unitarian service.

Stardust said...

andrea, yes, I was thinking that abuse in the home probably factored into this guy's problems. That and then the rejection by the missionary center probably sent him over the edge.

As far as god helping the guard to shoot the gunman...why didn't this all-powerful god just give the sick dude a seizure or something to stop him from him from going on a rampage? They always thank god for HUMAN ACTIONS...this god never does anything alone. It would be nice if the god believers would finally make that connection. People do...god doesn't exist.

As for the press, the shootings at the mall didn't get this much press with "gawdly" witnesses to give interviews on television. I live in Chicagoland and homicides happen on a regular basis in the inner city, and even in the suburbs. But that is just everyday shootings...but when it happens in a's horrific all of a sudden. But no reporter ever asks the question "where was your god in the first place to prevent this?" or "why is your god protecting you and not the young folks who are now DEAD?" No one ever asks that on camera. Maybe they do and it gets edited out so as not to "offend" the religious.

Stardust said...

I would be interested to know what Matthew Murray's family knew about his state of mind and how he was able to get his hands on some guns.

Tommy, that is a good question. They never said where he got these guns. Did they belong to his parents? And if so, why would parents of a mentally ill son who lives with them have guns in their home?