Saturday, June 16, 2007

Good news - "That's a tough little girl, I tell you"

The little girl in the pink outfit pictured in this image is 5-year-old Hannah Klamecki, with her father Pastor Michael Klamecki and a little neighbor friend. Hannah was out on the Kankakee River with her grandfather, swimming, when something went wrong and the grandfather drowned and Hannah had to fend for herself in the murky waters of the Kankakee. Fortunately, Hannah had on arm floats that small children wear, and this kept her from the same fate as her grandfather.


It's a wonderful relief that Hannah was found alive, walking out from the woods with no more than a few scratches and bruises after two days gone missing. It was indeed a time to rejoice and be happy she is alive and well. Unfortunately, this isn't the case very often and children's dead and bloated bodies are pulled from the waters much to the terrible grief of the parents, loved ones and friends who loved them.

An excerpt from the news article contains typical reponses to situations when things turn out well.

Tricia Little, a close family friend of Hannah's parents, said David Klamecki taught the girl and her two younger sisters about the outdoors. She credits that instruction — and God — with Hannah's survival.

Hannah's father, Mike Klamecki, is senior pastor at New Hope Community Church in Villa Park. Little's husband, Brian, said parishioners have been "praying for his whole family."

"Obviously, we're giving all the glory to God on this one," Brian Little said.

My question is this: Who would have gotten credit if the story had not ended so happily? Who gets credit for the dead grandpa? Who gets credit for the little ones who are found brutally murdered after family and friends prayed their hearts out for them to be found?

Sheriff's Chief Deputy Ken McCabe said "That's a tough little girl, I tell you". This is why Hannah survived. She had arm floats on in order to keep from drowning. She must have been a decent swimmer for a five-year-old to be allowed to swim in a dangerous river. She was found in a reasonable amount of time where she was only a bit dehydrated, and tired. We don't even want to contemplate what would have happened if she hadn't been found in the short time she had been missing.

I read another story recently where people were reuinted with their kidnapped daughter and refreshingly they expressed extreme elation that their daughter was safe and together with them once more without giving credit to her "specialness" in the eyes of any supreme being. They gave thanks to the Sheriff's department and all those who did the work to find her. Lucky they found a live child . . . it's a relief when things turn out well.

However, for another teenager in the news recently, things ended horribly with the girl being found murdered. She was a gorgeous teenager who simply went shopping at a Target store, was shoved into a car by a man she didn't know, taken off to some secluded place and murdered. How do people think one life is more "special" than another. How do people rationalize that a god is picking and choosing which innocent and scared child to save from a horrible fate?


Andrea said...

You're right, Star. I read entirely too much true crime to give any credence to the idea that a god is choosing a few special souls here and there to continue living. It's just a numbers game. This little girl is very fortunate. Like you said, how many other families are not so fortunate? (And then we quickly forget about them.) Isn't there still some little girl missing in the UK?

I'll tell you one thing, the fervent prayers of those about to be murdered sure as hell don't get answered.

Poodles Rule said...

I am always frustrated by the arrogance of such announcements that god was helping someone over someone else. I always wish someone in the media would ask them when they are rejoicing in "gods" name "why then do you think god hated (insert murdered child here)and not your kid?"

That could make for a fun conversation.

Kathy said...

I guess the way I look at it is that we won't always understand God's reasoning, why some prayers get answered and others don't, but He is God, we are the creation. Life is a gift, but this life is only temporary. We are all going to die. Some of us get a few years, others longer. What is important is looking to Him for our eternal life...that is what lasts.

There is evil in the world, but some day God will make everything right. He gives us all free choice and some use it for evil. But He is good and we need to always go to Him with our needs and trust Him with the answers even if they are not what we think they should be. In the end, He will repay....good or bad.

Stardust said...

Kathy - You say this god made everything. Therefore he made evilness. WHY?

It doesn't make sense. It seems your answer is the typical Christian programmed response that we hear over and over. You make up answers for this god as you like to believe because of your own fear of death and wish to live forever.

If that belief helps you cope, then I have no right to tell you not to believe it. But I cannot believe in a god that picks and chooses which little child to allow to suffer and die while he looks the other way. Why create that life in the first place if the "goal" is heaven? It is absurd thinking to me.

Also, really read your is full of vengence, bloodshed, people killing, baby killing by this "good" god of the Abrahamic religions.

It was reported front page of Yahoo news today, a little 4-year-old girl died in the floodwaters in Texas. I guess we just don't understand why god doesn't consider this little one good enough to save...and saying she is "with god" is a coping device for those who loved her.

Kathy said...

Well Stardust, I don't believe God made evil, it is a result of a prideful choice. And it is heartbreaking to see children die as well as so many other difficult things in the world.

I will admit that it takes faith to believe and have hope and trust, but it is not something that I or others who believe are making up....we know it to be true and total reality. And it
is because of this that I am NOT afraid to die.

I would have much trouble coping with a lot of things in this world without faith and knowing that there is a loving God in control, who's heart breaks just like ours over tragedy, but will exercise justice, sometimes later rather than sooner.

He really does care, but His ways are different than ours. He sees the whole picture, we only see part of it. And He does not hate, we people do that. Everyone suffers with hatred....He is love and we need His love in our lives.

Stardust said...

Again, if god created EVERYTHING, as Christians believe, he created evil choices for humans. And if we are to believe that it is morally wrong to kill someone, or not help someone when we can clearly see that person is in harms way, then this god of the Christian mythology is immoral.

Why the games and having to "dish out justice" later? This god gives humans a "choice"...but in reality there is no choice. If my kids don't take my advice for follow what I say, I don't want to punish them forever for simply not following what I say. That is cruel, and absurd, and again, not much of a "free choice". There is only "obey or die"...the "evilness" of the games of the god of Christian mythology is as cruel as any god of Greek, Roman or other mythologies, and are only the reflection of human goodness and evilness as told via mythological stories.

Again, you are making up your god to the way you choose to believe this god to be, according to what makes you feel good. Your ignore the bad parts of the Bible, (like orders to stone children to death who curse their parents, adulterers should be stoned to death, god destroying innocent people while saving "sinful" drunkard Noah, etc.)

As for the coping...Christian or non-christian, god believer or not...some people are much better at coping than others. I have seen Christians who are always crying, always sad, always running to medical science to be cured...never only trusting their god. Their "faith" lies more in humans and science than any "divine intervention."

You will answer that god gave us doctors...well...that is what is expected of you to answer in response. We can't know god, we are not to judge god, etc. etc. You make up answers to everything to reinforce your own views and desires. If there was a god you might be surprised to be sent to the "basement department" for having been all wrong. The Jehovah's witnesses say that your god has chosen his 144,000 already...and you are not going to heaven. Everyone has their own little version of this "faith".

Stardust said...

Another point...I lost a baby at full term in the delivery room...had to go home to an empty nursery. That was some practical joke now, wasn't it? I had a pastor tell me that god decided it wasn't time much for perfect god who doesn't make mistakes then! Why start it in the first place then?

I suffered a miscarriage a year later.

I prayed for those babies to live, just like Christians pray for peoole not to abort innocent babies. Ironic, isn't it?

I was angry for a long time, but the anger went away and was filled in with acceptance. I realize that things happen in nature beyond our control. I went on to have three live babies...why? Because we moved back north to civilization and good educated doctors who knew what to do with high risk pregnancies.

I just wish people would quit saying we are like some kind of puppets...

consider the universe and its vastness...the Earth is no more than a fleck in its vastness. Now consider the people on the planet...consider all the other planets and tell me why we should presume that an entity in the vastness of the universe would be interested in a molecule sized planet and choose to put little specks of people on it...and know about each and every one of those's absurd.

Andrea said...

It's infuriating that actual suffering, abuse, and murder should be explained away with flowery, entirely speculative religious rhetoric. There are just as many christians who would argue quite vehemently vs. Kathy's idea of free will (predestination).

The fact remains that this in-charge-of-everything god allows much evil to go on. I fail to see how this is loving.

Naomi said...

Leave the child alone. Kathy needs her big daddy Gord just to get through this time on earth. Little does she know there's nothing waiting at the end, no matter how many layaway payments she makes on her Eternal Dream Vacation! She's one of those who will never tally up the time, energy and money wasted on a Bronze Age Urban Myth, sold to her by her parents and fed by her lying pastors, all for the greed of man.

Odds are Kathy barely finished high school. Odds are she was one of the tedious xian chicks, like my fooish fundie cousins. She's probably on her second husband and has more than three children who all rebel against her and reject her myths, which causes fear that Gord will judge her unworthy. Don't remind her of the Leviticus law on stoning disobedient children. All those Texas kids killed by their xian mothers, leaving 17 children dead, and three mothers committing suicide afterward. And the three mothers who went to prison. And don't forget the preacher-in-training who stuck his four-month-old daughter in the microwave (the young mother said he ISN'T evil! Huh?)...

Kathy's not smart enough to figure it out for herself and too stubborn to listen to our words of truth. She thinks her world will collapse without Gord's questionable "help". She hasn't the intelligence to imagine a life that is free of Gord's heavy baggage

Tommy said...

Fundies always claim that God is beyond our understanding, and yet they believe they know exactly what God wants.

Legacy said...

OK, first off - I am not a member of the christian religion, but Hannah's father is my cousin, and he is a lifelong christian and a pastor at his church. It's only natural that they, being devote to their religion, give thanks to god, and they have every right to. If anything, I think her grandfather's spirit may have given her a nudge in the right direction - as she amazingly found the searchers, not the other way around.

Hannah is a very special girl, and has always had what I can best describe as "an old soul". She is very outgoing and resourceful and full of life. When we were all stressing and crying while the search went on I could only think about all of the little things that she did, and how I always told my mother that if I were to have a child I wish it was like Hannah. I mourn for my uncle, but I couldn't help crying tears of joy when I heard Hannah had been found.

I just hope that this whole experience doesn't effect her on a deeper level, as she currently does not want to go swimming or in the forest anymore - understandably, I wouldn't either

Stardust said...

legacy, whatever your god beliefs, I am glad that Hannah was found. Yes, she is an amazing little girl. I am not saying that we should not be ecstatic that she was found and is safe and sound, and as a parent I understand the grief and fear her father must have felt when she was missing.

The point of this post is to say that this was very fortunate for you. Many missing children are found the 12 year old that was found dead yesterday. Your uncle is dead. If he had been found alive also you all would be praising an imaginary being for his safe return. But he is dead so you say "god's will"...proving there is absolutely zero point to prayer except to make people think they have some magical being to rescue them in times of trouble.

People found Hannah, Hannah found her people because she is a strong little girl, and it wasn't mid-winter, and a lunatic didn't take her, and many other rational and realistic factors.