Stardust Musings and Thoughts for the Freethinker: As a public service . . .

Sunday, June 24, 2007

As a public service . . .

On a serious note, there are NO justifications for suicide bombings. NONE. NEVER.

10 comments:

vjack said...: So, even if your country was invaded and occupied on the whim of a psychopathic religious extremist and your fellow citizens had no other way to fight back, this would not be justified? I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you, only that I think I can imagine scenarios were we might be able to justify this sort of act. Maybe.; 6/24/2007 1:29 PM
jhbowden said...: vjack--

Our troops are noble and righteous in their effort to defend the Iraqi democracy. Trying to topple a democracy and create a theocracy run by dark age TERRORISTS as in Iran is not justified under *any* circumstances. The political left at least used to give nominal support for democracy and human rights. Now the left condemns these ideals as imperialist and praises the glory of backward cultures and caring dictators.

As far as Bush's religious affiliation goes, he is just a Methodist. And politically, Bush is effectively a Democrat, not an extremist: amnesty, prescription drug entitlement, no child left behind, energy socialism, aid to Fatah -- this isn't much different than what you would get from Comrade Clinton.; 6/24/2007 1:46 PM
Stardust said...: vjack, these religious extremists are blowing up their own people, men...women...and children and care not who is in the way. They teach their own children how to strap bombs to themselves and blow up people they don't like and tell them that is a glorious thing.

Suicide bombing is quite different from a war mission where a soldier or squadron knows they may or may not return from that battle, but are not intentionally blowing up innocent people while believing they are going to get some heavenly rewards from their sky daddy for it. Unfortunately, too many innocents are lost in war when they are in the line of fire and governemtns don't care about "collateral damage". But suicide bombers target the innocents. Like in 911.

The Sunnis and Shiites have been blowing each other up via suicide bombers on a regular basis, Iraqi's killing other Iraqis. Why? Both SHARE a country and have always been fighting and blowing each other up.

I still stand firm in my opinion...there are no "scenerios" where we might be able to justify suicide bombings.; 6/24/2007 2:15 PM
vjack said...: I understand what you are saying, Stardust, and you are probably right. I certainly have many problems with what the Iraqi bombers are doing. I guess what I was getting at before was that I think it might be possible to conduct a targeting bombing of an occupying force without harming your own citizens and that I could imagine scenarios where it might be justified. Obviously, this is very different from what is happening in Iraq right now.; 6/24/2007 2:41 PM
JDHURF said...: I was going to argue that there are, in fact, scenarios wherein suicide bombing is perfectly legitimate and am glad to see that vjack has already begun the argument.

First I must point out that it simply goes without saying that the suicide bombing conducted by religious extremists against civilian non-combatants is evil and can never be justified.
However, to claim that suicide bombing as a war-time tactic is unjustified across the board regardless of circumstances is inaccurate. For example, if in Nazi Germany an opposition force grew that wished to subvert the Nazi agenda yet had no other means to fight back but to strap home-made explosive devices to themselves and blow themselves up while within close radius of enemy combatants, it seems manifestly true to me that said actions would be justified.; 6/25/2007 10:22 PM
Stardust said...: I guess if people can't think of any other tactics or solutions, then they can say just about anything is justified. And it's much easier when there is an imagined reward and glorification involved.

The cartoon illustrates the reasons suicide bombings are actually carried out in reality on a daily basis and they are all pretty damn stupid and lame. These are not "scenerios" or "what if this happened during WWII". This stuff is really happening every single day and the ones committing these acts are dumbass, scary, superstitious people who think they are doing a magnificent and glorious act in the name of their god and that they are going to get rewarded greatly for it in some magic kingdom.

I am sure that there are times in war when a solder must sacrifice himself for his squadron or for the success of a mission. But that is entirely different. Has there ever been an instance where a westerner from a civilized nation has strapped bombs to themselves and walking into a crowd of innocent civilians and blew themselves and everyone around them sky high? I can't think of any or even find any when researching the subject.; 6/26/2007 9:59 AM
CyberKitten said...: stardust said: Has there ever been an instance where a westerner from a civilized nation has strapped bombs to themselves and walking into a crowd of innocent civilians and blew themselves and everyone around them sky high?

As jdhurf said - Attacks on innocent civilians are beyonf the pale in any kind of conflict... But like him & vjack I can theoretically conceive of justifiable suicide attacks against legitimate military targets (the WW2 Kamakazi springs to mind). That is, of course, a world away from the present unjustifiable suicide attacks all over the world against soft civilian targets.

As to Westerners killing themselves and civilian targets... it's not really what we do. Though we have knowingly targetted civilians during wartime eg. the bombing raids on European cities again in WW2. Justified at the time I doubt very much if they could be justified today.; 6/26/2007 11:07 AM
Sean Wright said...: The bombing of Dresden was pretty unjustified from memory. No strategic value, demoralizing to the populace, revenge for the blitz perhaps. Not suicide bombing by any means but an example of unjustified destruction.; 6/27/2007 7:48 PM
jhbowden said...: "demoralizing to the populace"

Uh, that is precisely the idea.

As General Sherman said before he destroyed Atlanta,

"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace."; 6/27/2007 9:41 PM
jhbowden said...: jdhurf--

I don't know of any instances of, let us say, French suicide bombers during the German occupation. The same thing applies with the Japanese occupation of much of China. Perhaps I am mistaken; feel free to enlighten me.

If Americans are strapping bombs to toddlers to use as weapons in a conflict, we would cease to be a society worth fighting for.; 6/27/2007 9:47 PM