Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Thou shalt not kill...EXCEPT WHEN WE SAY IT IS OK TO DO SO

Religion

It's something how the abortion issue always overshadows all other issues and topics with many fundamentalist christians. They have no comment about Mitraism and Christianity, The Stardust Comet Mission, Mark Twain, Chinese imports, and none have answered my repeated question --

"If there were no rewards for believing and no promised forgiveness of sins, no promise of eternal life, and no threats of punishment in hell for not believing...would you still believe if there was nothing in it for the self?
No one answers that question. But talk about abortion and WOW...they get all crazy!

I don't see the same craziness to save the life of someone on the medieval Death Row, many of whom are victims of their own environment, upbringing and mental illness. It does not mean that I do not feel for the victim's family, but killing the killer is merely revenge. It does not make things right, but it makes vindictive people feel better. I was very impressed when Pope John Paul II went to the prison and forgave the man who shot him. (Most catholics are consistent in their pro- life stance.)

Fundamentalist christians here are almost as scary as the fundamentalist muslims overseas with their over-zealousness and the way they cheer on another person's death, and the way some take the law into their own hands to kill doctors who perform abortions, with other fundies cheering shouts of approval afterwards. The irony of their thinking baffles me. (Thou shalt not kill...EXCEPT WHEN WE SAY IT IS OK TO DO SO....) I don't see most fundamentalist pro-lifers trying to stop the killing of young men and women through warring. Onward Christian Soldiers! KILL THE ENEMY! Let our own sons and daughters be killed, and kill the sons and daughters in other nations. But let's save those zygotes and embryos so we can just sacrifice the people they become later.

11 comments:

Macbeth54 said...

To your question, ""If there were no rewards for believing and no promised forgiveness of sins, no promise of eternal life, and no threats of punishment in hell for not believing...would you still believe if there was nothing in it for the self?"

Yes, I would still believe. I am a Christian, I don't know if you would call me fundamentalist or not, but thought I would answer that question for you, so you can say at least one Christian has.

Stardust said...

Thanks for your comment! And thanks for stopping by.

vantilope said...

If there were no rewards for believing and no promised forgiveness of sins, no promise of eternal life, and no threats of punishment in hell for not believing...would you still believe if there was nothing in it for the self?

But there are! That's the point! All that is required of me is 1) repenting of the sin of considering myself as my god and 2) the ongoing SURRENDER OF SELF to the will of the Creator God.

Every (sane) person wants the goodies you listed, but only those seeking Truth are willing to pay God's price to get it.

There ARE rewards for believing including forgiveness of sins, and eternal life, and deliverance from punishment in hell for not believing...so why would anybody continue in unbelief? Is it the cost?

Stardust said...

Every sane and rational person does not believe in an invisible being in the sky who plays mysterious games with people and passes out treats or punishments for believing or not believing. I don't believe any of that stuff anymore. It is believed by people who NEED to believe it, who NEED a crutch...who fear death.
We all want to live forever, but it ain't gonna happen. It's the nature of things...the cycle of life and death that happens to all living things. I am at peace with accepting that instead of trying to find a magical way to defeat it.
If christians really believed in their religion, why do they go to the doctor to get medicine to live longer? Why are they so devastated when a friend or loved one dies if they believe that person is going to a better place and you will see him or her again? It's because of that doubt...most christians doubt whether they verbalize it or not.
Ahhh...you are now going to say but we are merely weak humans...you will make up whatever you want to hang on to your beliefs. But I no longer need to and am at peace with that.

vantilope said...

Every sane and rational person does not believe in an invisible being in the sky...

Correct.

We all want to live forever, but it ain't gonna happen... the cycle of life and death that happens to all living things.

Do you actually think Christians are unaware that they face physical death?

...why do they go to the doctor to get medicine to live longer?

Yes, even as a Christian all I am familiar with is this life. I don't want to be sick (so I go to the doctor [BTW: you label as hypocritical those people of faith who go to the doctor, do you also label as wackos those who don't?]) and I don't want to go through the suffering associated with death, being a Christian does not eliminate all pain and fear.

Why are they so devastated when a friend or loved one dies if they believe that person is going to a better place and you will see him or her again?

You're being silly. If my best friend moved to another country I would also be sad. Missing a loved one is sad for believers and unbelievers. Thinking of that friend suffering also also causes sadness for everyone. Where do you get the idea that Christians don't have typical human emotions?

Believers do have hope of seeing other believers in the afterlife. Believers also have the anguish of knowing that hell awaits others (though we don't know who). So it's not all fun and games at funerals.

...most christians doubt whether they verbalize it or not.

So do most agnostics/atheists.

...you are now going to say but we are merely weak humans...

I could, but I'll say this instead. Christianity in it's essence is not a religion. A religion is a codified set of doctrines, beliefs and values. Christianity is knowing Christ, not knowing of or about Him. Those who KNOW Christ can never turn away from that relationship. Those who merely know ABOUT Him can be convinced of many other contrary things and they can be at "peace" with their decision. But I wonder how at peace you really are given the time you spend attacking Christianity at this blog. Do you have a blog where you rail against unicorn-itarians or little-green-men-enites?

I doubt it. You have no need to fight against such things, they have no spiritual "pull". But to turn away from God requires active resistance.

I hope you keep your blog going and keep challenging yourself to really be an open-minded freethinker.

"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32

Any other kind of freedom is nothing more that the freedom to shuffle around in one's own cage.

Take care stardust.

Stardust said...

vantilope

First of all, Christianity IS a religion despite what your programmer pastor tells you. Any educated scholar, even educated christian will tell you that.

Yours is the same programmed response that I get from most christians who respond with what is drilled into them as to what to say to try to get people over to your side.

This is the stuff that makes the atheists speak up. We have been sitting around letting religious people speak their minds for a long long time...but we are not respected in return.

Atheists do not go door knocking at people's homes to try to sell their ideas. Christians have television shows, radio shows etc by the dozens, but let an atheist try it and the christians all start screaming because someone has another viewpoint.

I was a christian well into my 30s...I know how the programming works. Sit there in church like Borg, having it told to you that you are a bad person and need forgiveness for whatever awful crims you commit that warrant eternal damnation by a "loving" god...you can keep your god stuff. It is evil and divides people...causes bigotry, warring and intolerance.

I am now 51 years old and have more peace and happiness than I have ever had in my life. If you need to go to a church every sunday to have your beliefs pounded into you and fellowship for support, that belief isn't very strong.

I do not merely go to other people's blogs to try to convert people to atheism. But this is MY blog and if you come by we can discuss things.

I hope that you can shake off the programming and become an open-minded free thinker open to other ideas as well.
Open minded to xians usually means "my way or the highway".

If I was to follow any religion it would be the peaceful religion of Buddhism.

Stardust said...

"I don't want to be sick (so I go to the doctor"

Why does not your god heal you...he is all powerful...Other humans can help you...but not your god? And why let you be sick in the first place...oh yeah, I remember from my days as a christian...because you are a BAD person. How stupid of me.

"Believers do have hope of seeing other believers in the afterlife. Believers also have the anguish of knowing that hell awaits others (though we don't know who). So it's not all fun and games at funerals."

I have seen many a christian fall apart when another fellow believer dies...they need valium, they need the pastor's support...they need people to pray for them. But I have been to funerals of other friends and we celebrate the life they have lived and sure we are sad to say goodbye...but we are strong...and we know we cannot fight nature so accept it with dignity.

"Where do you get the idea that Christians don't have typical human emotions?"

Most christians I see cannot cope with a hangnail without being put on a prayer list.

I could go on and on...but you will keep making up answers -- and I am not the silly one.

Peace be with you. Praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Thomas Kearney said...

It amazes me that people today still unthinkingly accept the existence of a God that was invented by the priests of a semi-nomadic confederation of tribes some 2,500 years ago.

There is no evidence to support that the ancient Israelites were slaves in Egypt and that they wandered around the Sinai Peninsula for 40 years. There is no evidence that King David and King Solomon ruled over a great Israelite kingdom that stretched from the Sinai to the Euphrates.

The ancient Israelites were at best a marginal people who intermittently maintained a precarious independence when they weren't being alternately conquered by the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians and the Persians.

The aforementioned neighbors of the Israelites attained great heights in technology as evidenced by the impressive ruins they left behind, they had sophisticated cultures. But the Israelites had none of these things. You won't find evidence of an Israelite style of architecture, or works of art, or observations about the stars, among other things. And yet, we're supposed to take it on faith that these country bumpkins had some unique and favored relationship with the all powerful creator of the universe?

Stardust said...

Thanks Thomas for stopping by my blog and commenting. I enjoy reading your comments on Atheist Revolution and am happy you have decided to leave comments on my blog.

I have been to several christian blogs recently and found such defensiveness on one hand and then total Borg-ness on the other. Either way, sweetness or hostility, people who follow religion are indeed BORG. I can't think of any other way to describe it. Being part of the "Borg" at one time makes me really understand how programmed christians and other religious people are. The christians will say "but how can so many people be wrong?" Just look at Nazi Germany for that answer! BRAINWASHING on mass scale. That's all it is, because so many humans want to find a way to escape the finality of death and to have immediate answers for things they do not understand.

Alan said...

Well said Stardust,

I am going to have to post on the fetus worshipers soon on my blog.

The replies to this post from your Christian readers really makes me so thankful that I no longer am so deluded as they obviously are.

Stardust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.