Stardust Musings and Thoughts for the Freethinker: “Mr. President, the war isn’t about you

Wednesday, May 21, 2008

“Mr. President, the war isn’t about you — or golf”

Nice rant once again by Keith Olbermann who says it so well.
This is a must-see.

LINK: Olbermann: Bush’s claim he gave up game to honor dead GIs is ludicrous

Part one

Part two

24 comments:

Anonymous said...: lol - I posted that clip to my blog too. Love Keith when he's all angry and fired-up like that!
That ending is just plain precious!; 5/22/2008 1:34 AM
CyberKitten said...: I don't think I've ever seen him *so* angry...; 5/22/2008 6:06 AM
jhbowden said...: I had to turn that off after Olbermann called America a land of cold blooded killers. Liberals think America is the bad guy -- this is what we conservatives mean when we say you people hate America.

Deep down, I know liberals can tell the difference between a liberal democracy compared with dictatorships and theocracies. But like Paul of Tarsus, they know the better, but choose the worse.

Bush is historically correct about appeasement. Negotiating with Hitler, for example, only gave him time to arm his impoverished country to the teeth.

During the last Democrat administration, we turned the other cheek after the first WTC attack in 1993, Somalia in the same year, after the Khobar Towers in 1995, after our embassies were bombed in 1998, and after the USS Cole in 2000. Osama said that this led him to believe the USA is a paper tiger. If Bush can learn that appeasement emboldens our enemies, there is no excuse for the rest of you.; 5/22/2008 10:16 AM
jhbowden said...: By the way, I'm sadly disappointed that the party of Harry Truman, JFK, and Scoop Jackson has degenerated to the party of the temper tantrum and the hissy fit. When Carter gets his second term this November, it will be hate America 24/7, non-stop apologizing, sucking up to dictators, and constant self-loathing.; 5/22/2008 10:26 AM
Stardust said...: Liberals think America is the bad guy --

No, we just recognize that our government is not infallible and makes mistakes...Idiot presidents make mistakes, Iraq was a mistake, Viet Nam was a mistake. Can't stick our head in the clouds and pretend we are perfect.

Dubya is a fuckup. He fucked up two companies his daddy gave him to run, and just like I said, he fucked up the presidency, too with his poor judgment and not being able to tell good advice from bad. He is a total idiot.; 5/22/2008 11:46 AM
Stardust said...: it will be hate America 24/7, non-stop apologizing, sucking up to dictators, and constant self-loathing.

And running a country into a recession, sending thousands of young men and women to die unnecessarily and giving up golf in an attempt to compensate for that is not hating America? Lying to the American people is not hating America? And Mr Bush has been in office for 8 years and look at the shape we are in. It's not all his fault, I blame much on our do-nothing Democrats who act like a bunch of morons in recent years. Our government needs a major overhaul.; 5/22/2008 11:50 AM
Stardust said...: Jason, just to make it clear. I voted for Hillary in the primary, though not thrilled. But I do not like the choices I am now stuck with. I probably just won't vote because with the choices we have, it won't matter.; 5/22/2008 11:52 AM
Stardust said...: I don't know how anyone can defend Dubya. When has he ever even acted like a leader, spoke like a leader, led like a leader? Never. He is a total doofus.; 5/22/2008 11:59 AM
Tommykey said...: Jason, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. Here is what Olberman was referring to:

"My use of Mr. Bush’s phrase “cold-blooded killers” referred not to them, but rather those former and current members of Mr. Bush’s administration and Pentagon who so irresponsibly unleashed the hounds of war, and may indeed some day face war crimes trials.

You also need to brush up on your history lessons there. What Neville Chamberlain did was agree to Hitler taking the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in the understanding that Hitler would not make any more territorial demands on his neighbors.

Merely engaging in dialogue with Iran, Hamas, or Hizbullah, IS NOT APPEASEMENT. Appeasement is when you give a bully something of value to him in the hopes that he will be satisfied with that and go away.

As for turning the other cheek in the first WTC attack, who were we supposed to attack in retaliation? We captured the main players involved in the attack.

We did retaliate after the 1998 embassy bombings, though admittedly it was ineffectual. But unfortunately, the attacks themselves were not enough to drum up support for an invasion of Afghanistan at the time.

As for the USS Cole, that happened with only three months left in Clinton's term. They had to certify who was responsible before they could retaliate. Why didn't the Bush administration retaliate for the USS Cole? After all, he had 8 months to do so. But apparently taking a vacation at his "ranch" in Texas was more important.

You're a very bright guy Jason, but you have an unfortunate tendency to let partisanship blind your judgment.

Presidents from both parties made mistakes with respect to terrorism, so don't lay it all at the feet of Clinton. Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks bombing in 1983. He gave Saddam Hussein a pass after an Iraqi fighter pilot fired a missile at the USS Stark (and it should be pretty obvious that the Stark attack was Saddam's way of saying fuck you to Reagan for selling arms to Iran while Iraq was at war with Iran).

As for emboldening our enemies, Bush's failure in Iraq has done that more than anything Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama can say. We went from "Mission Accomplished" to "the insurgents are in their last throes" to "we need to continue the surge". Nobody is afraid of us anymore because of the administration's failure in Iraq.; 5/22/2008 12:07 PM
jhbowden said...: tommy--

I do not blame people for not acknowledging threats before 911, even Clinton. I do have great contempt for people who can't put the pieces together *after* the fact.

I would definitely be ashamed to call the people in our military cold-blooded killers. The Pentagon is not an abstraction. I definitely do not believe people who support democracy over tyranny deserve to be on trial for war crimes. If Olbermann was around in 1951, he'd recommend putting Harry Truman on trial. That's how far to the left this country has moved.

Can direct dialogue be counterproductive? You bet. Hillary Clinton, who is far more experienced that Obama, stated that we don't want to be used for propaganda purposes. Look at this image of Merkel and Chavez. Examine the body language. Chavez just compared Merkel's Germany to Hitler, and in return, Merkel is buffing up his stature. This enhances Chavez's prestige in his part of the world, and weakens his enemies, and he knows it too, given his huge smile. I'm afraid with Obama, the USA will be the official chump for every theocrat and dictator on the planet. We will see many nauseating pictures like this.

Even better, what do we do when someone like Ahmadinejad challenges Obama to a peace agreement during dialogue? We may know like Hitler he doesn't mean it and is just pulling a stunt. If we say yes, we allow an evil guy to arm himself to the teeth for Armageddon down the road. If we say no, America looks like a callous bully. Direct peace talks is a bad, bad idea at the high level unless you know beforehand that the other side is honestly interested, like Gorbachev.; 5/22/2008 10:35 PM
jhbowden said...: stardust--

When I say liberals hate America, I am not saying this because they think America is imperfect. Hell, I think America is imperfect. Liberals hate America because they don't like what America is all about, going all the way back to folks like Adams and Hamilton.

In this context, Olbermann thinks America has been the world's primary villain over the last few years, even going as far as to say America's leadership should be on trial for war crimes. He offers no constructive policy of his own -- he just shits all over what is there. That is the definition of an asshole.; 5/22/2008 10:43 PM
Stardust said...: Liberals hate America because they don't like what America is all about,

Jason, you are generalizing and lumping all liberals into the leftist extremist categories, just like you wouldn't like us lumping all conservatives together and saying they don't have a brain because GW has a head of straw.; 5/23/2008 12:08 AM
Tommykey said...: Look at this image of Merkel and Chavez. Examine the body language.

Oh yeah Jason, look at this picture of Merkel and Bush. Examine the body language.

Right back atcha buddy!; 5/23/2008 8:35 PM
jhbowden said...: Tommy--

I've seen the video clip -- 'weird' and 'dork' are the words you are looking for, not 'evil' and 'appeasement'.

;)

stardust--

How do you like Comrade Olbermann's assassination of Senator Clinton over her innocuous RFK remark? Clinton was simply stating how elections can change on a dime, and the liberal media is making it sound like she called for the Messiah to be shot.

If feminists were true to their principles, they'd see this as yet another example of an older qualified woman being passed up by a less qualified, less experienced handsome young man. What do you think?; 5/24/2008 7:40 AM
Stardust said...: Jason, I would have to agree with you on that one. I would have been more comfortable seeing Hillary win the nomination. And the "good feelings" people are getting from Obama is going to come back and knock the wind out of every Obama-loving's sails. He is inexperienced, and I wonder who everyone is going to blame when he doesn't deliver. I hope he proves all of us skeptics wrong. (Though I am not holding my breath.)

I don't agree with everything Olbermann rants about. I don't pick a person and think that just because I agree with one thing a liberal says that I automatically believe everything that comes out of their mouth is the "gospel". (Unlike many conservatives who think everything that spews forth from Rush Limbaugh and Faux News is the gospel, for example. ;) )

I agree with Olbermann about Moron, Dictator Bush. He ran us into the ground. Whoever takes over the reigns, Dem or Rep is going to have a massive mess to clean up. If Obama gets that crappy job, then hope he knows who to put in charge as his advisers because he is going to seriously need them.; 5/24/2008 8:07 AM
jhbowden said...: Morris Cohen once remarked that "Not all who rave are divinely inspired."

Puritan liberals, always concerned with social justice, can't imagine themselves getting upset without good reason, so they assume other parties must be rational when they display strong emotions as well. They think wild emotions from jihadists to Reverend Wright show that these miscreants have some sort of point.

I on the other hand infer inner irrationality from external irrationality. The same applies to Olbermann-- just because he passionately hates Bush doesn't mean he has any evidence or reasoning backing up his case.; 5/24/2008 9:07 AM
Stardust said...: just because he passionately hates Bush doesn't mean he has any evidence or reasoning backing up his case.

As reflected by Bushie's current approval rating, his record over the past EIGHT YEARS, I would say that there is more than enough evidence for what Olbermann has said. He just reiterated the obvious.; 5/24/2008 9:11 AM
Stardust said...: Worst President Ever; 5/24/2008 9:15 AM
jhbowden said...: Truman left office with a 22% approval rating, yet historians regard him as one of the best Presidents, having the vision to contain Communism when people didn't understand the reason for the strategy. (Dolts like Chomsky still don't understand it.)

If truth and justice are functions of consensus, then Bush was right to enter Iraq, given the polls showed 70%+ approval at the time.

BTW, how is Bush worse, than, let us say, FDR? FDR let Hirohito, Hitler, and Mussolini arm themselves to the teeth. FDR implemented retrograde economic policies-- unemployment never dropped below 14% during his term. And FDR ruined our judicial tradition by packing the courts with party hacks.

Bush on the other hand will leave his successor with 5% unemployment -- considered by the liberal media to be an awesome number when Clinton was President. Bush brought democratic change to two countries, and made responsible judicial appointments.; 5/24/2008 9:22 AM
Stardust said...: Some reasons why worst president ever:

1. No other president has responded in such a half-hearted and incomplete manner to serious threats to the United States, and then left the job unfinished, as this one has to the al Qaeda threat after the September 11th attacks. [more]
2. No other president has betrayed his country by subverting the fight against enemies sworn to destroy us by diverting resources from that effort to a war of his choosing against a nation that posed no imminent threat.
3. No other president has displayed such cold disregard for life as did this one when he golfed, played guitar, and ate cake as a killer hurricane bore down on the poor and helpless of New Orleans.
4. No other president has stayed on vacation after a catastrophe hit the United States as this one did for two days after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast.
5. No other president has claimed the extra-constitutional power to throw US citizens in prison indefinitely and to deny them access to lawyers, contact with the outside world, and their habeas corpus rights.
6. No other president has saddled so many future generations with so much debt by giving his rich financial backers tax breaks that must be paid for by our children and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren.
7. No other president has created so much anger and ill-will toward the United States as to drive tens of thousands of new recruits into the arms of our enemies as this one has by invading Iraq.
8. No other president has so deeply damaged the credibility and prestige of the United States in the eyes of the world.
9. No other president has so blindly ignored scientific evidence and followed political ideology and religious fundamentalism in setting national policy.
10. No other president has so badly deceived and misled his own people and the world as this one did with his "reasons" for invading Iraq.
11. No other president has so poorly grasped his mother tongue.
12. No other president has been so incapable of admitting mistakes and learning from them.; 5/24/2008 10:53 AM
jhbowden said...: stardust--

I'm frankly surprised; I always thought you were more reasonable than this. You do not sound like yourself.

We still have habeas corpus.

Bush is on good terms with Calderon, Merkel, Sarkozy, Brown (soon to be Cameron), Harper, Berlusconi, and other sensible leaders -- socialists like Olbermann are pissed that Bush isn't friends with autocrats like Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Raul Castro, Assad, Ahmadinejad, and so forth.

Bush is a Methodist, not a fundamentalist. Liberals have been criticizing Bush for defending secularists in the Muslim world against religious fanatics.

Claiming Bush is a stupid moron, but was smart enough to dupe sophisticates like Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden, Dodd etc. to go to war is grossly illogical.

Bush did not cause Hurricane Katrina -- six hurricanes hit Florida during his term. Unlike Blanco and Nagin , the Republicans in Florida knew how to do their jobs.

I personally know you're smarter than this; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude you carelessly cut and pasted someone else's lousy argument because of today's time constraints. :); 5/24/2008 11:33 AM
Stardust said...: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude you carelessly cut and pasted someone else's lousy argument because of today's time constraints. :)

Well, I am having a bit of a time constraint today with Jeff & Whit's wedding and all, and sorry for the cut and paste job, BUT Bush is a crappy ass president and I know that you aren't that happy with him either.

Bush didn't "dupe" anyone. His administration duped the American people. We've been lied to, bullshitted and he continues to lie. Bush doesn't care about the will of the American people, only the will of himself. Then he tries to act like he cares when he obviously couldn't give two shits.

No one can cause hurricanes, but Bush's response to disasters is so incredibly slow, and he seems to be baffled in the face of crisis and disaster. It seems to cause him to freeze in his tracks and he can't seem to get his brain to function when he needs to think quickly. He becomes easily stupified.

Bush is an evangelical buttlicker if he isn't a fundie himself.

As for Florida, it helps to have a brother in the White House.

And no, I am not one of those liberals that think that we need to be "friends" with Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Raul Castro, Assad, Ahmadinejad, and so forth. But would be best if we can avoid military confrontation if at all possible. That requires diplomacy...though most of the ones you mentioned cannot or refuse to be reasoned with. This still has nothing to do with Bush being a dumbass.

and as #11 says "No other president has so poorly grasped his mother tongue." Only the mutually ignorant can disagree with this one. I have never known a president in my lifetime to be so undignified and presenting himself as a buffoon on many occasions.

List a few things that Bush has actually accomplished in his EIGHT YEARS in office.; 5/24/2008 8:16 PM
Stardust said...: How do you like Comrade Olbermann's assassination of Senator Clinton over her innocuous RFK remark? Clinton was simply stating how elections can change on a dime, and the liberal media is making it sound like she called for the Messiah to be shot.

I recently had a chance to see that Olbermann rant about Hillary and I do understand what Hillary was saying. Elections CAN change in a split second, however her word of "assassination" was not a good choice or the Kennedy example. There are too many kooks in the world who would say "oh yeah!" and get a big idea. There is enough of that worry without the politicians themselves planting that in some psychotic's mind. BUT, I do know where she is coming from and what was meant...go the distance because you just never know what turn of events might change everything for her. Maybe they will pull something out about the other candidate that would change everything...he has had questionable law dealings with slum lords, etc. Who knows what might come up. This is a democracy and she has every right to take this all the way.; 5/25/2008 9:37 AM
Tommykey said...: Here's a post of mine that even Jason could love!; 5/25/2008 9:49 PM